Move this community thing to slack etc - this is not effective

I find most of my questions don’t have answers even though netlify community is really large compared to another community I use FaunaDB(I get support in 2 mins max, sometimes from the actual people in the community).

My questions go unanswered plus this forum is as not intuitive as it can get.

I am currently facing an issue with the Netlify API’s not doing the right stuff after a successful request.

This pertains to adding domains & https.
After updating my site after 1creating the site, the domain is set
But in reality, the panel doesn’t show it and the domain itself doesn’t work.

When using the frontend panel it works.
This invalidities are really scary to me as issues may arise which will make us loose customers.

I love the fact the I can deploy easily with netlify, but these irregularities are really something am scared of

Just this morning I also got an error where a domain DNS I had already assigned Netlify was telling me I haven’t actually added it.

For the second time, please help me out.

@henry212 Can you provide a domain name so others might be able to look into this matter?

I have had issues with

learnir.org
learnir.net

But the real issue is the domain aliases which are not added but am told they are via the API.
Also the DNS keeps changing, is there currently a way to actually get an up to date DNS CNAME detail so I can show it to my customers to add to their domain name.

image

The red part used to be pO6…
What current way do I access that through an API or is there a static variable I can use that dosen’t change.

I currently have this here(After two API calls, first to create then to update, second part worked):

After that showing of it been successful, the actual frontend:

This is not going well

@henry212 When you say “via the API” do you mean in the Netlify dashboard?

Also, the DNS virtually never changes, although it can if you delete a domain and re-add it. If you’re seeing DNS address changes, something is really wrong.

Also, the red part was NEVER pO6. It might have been p06 (zero, not capital-O). It does look as though there are zeros and not capital-Os in the image you posted, though.

Finally, I don’t understand what you mean by a “static variable” When Netlify assigns DNS servers to you for entry in the dashboard of your registrar, they shouldn’t change unless you do something drastic.

@henry212 For learnir.org (at least) NameCheap is still your DNS server, which is why your custom domains do not connect with your content on Netlify.

I still don’t understand what all you’ve tried, but in your position, I think what I would do would be to open two browser windows, one for your Namecheap account and one with your Netlify dashboard.

Then I would go to the DNS page for each site in turn in Netlify, check what the four DNS entries are supposed to be, and then verify that these are the entries you made in NameCheap. Note that the four DNS entries can be different for learnir.org than they are for learnir.net, and that there is nothing wrong with that. However, my recommendation would be to get one site working, and then add the other domain as alias in the Netlify dashboard to that working domain. (This is assuming you’re going to have each of your custom domains point to the same content.)

Perhaps I should mention that I have spun up dozens of websites on Netlify that are registered with NameCheap, so I have verified that this should work when done properly. That doesn’t mean there isn’t some glitch in the system, but it does mean that this is a tried-and-true combination, so that once everything is configured properly, it will work.

Your correct I wanted it is zero, that was a mistake in my typing of the answer not in the actual DNS part of namecheap

By static variable I mean some way of connecting all domains to something that dosen’t change. I found ways like the ALIAS, Load Balancer IP etc

I changed my DNS to test these out

  1. I changed this after reporting this situation to test out other domain connection options other than the CNAME etc, hence that is not the reason actually

  2. The actual problem as I have found is what way to get a DNS for my customers to connect to before I add the domain so I can show it to them so if it changes they connect to the option chosen from the netlify servers.

  3. DNS actually works when I connect to netlify directly from frontend but have realised because the DNS nameservers are always changing my old assumptions of it being one are affecting the primary domain.

  4. I currently sort of understand how to make the domain aliases work by distributing the DNS serving to netlify before creating a site using them as my new sites aliases.

With all this my problem now is:
How can I get the right nameservers for my users to connect to before I deploy to the site

@henry212

  1. If you post something that you say doesn’t work and then change it, that makes it very difficult for others to help troubleshoot your issue.

  2. I don’t know what your goal is, but typically you don’t provide DNS addresses to your customers. That should be set up once and then left alone. If they know enough about DNS to make the settings, then let them do it. If they don’t, then don’t let them fuss with it.

  3. Unless something is very wrong, the DNS entries offered by Netlify should not be changing ever.

  4. Check my response to you above for the steps on how to get the correct name server addresses, or:

  1. I changed it because I was not getting the help I needed and had to move and try different stuff, sorry about that as well. I didn’t know your part of the netlify team too

  2. Through it I have come to understand what makes adding a sub-domain of a domain you own successful (before you add a domain alias of a different domain to a site, in my case my domain had to connected a netlify site already)

  3. I also got to know about the DNS nameservers changing by new site added via API, hence my need to think around this problem.

  4. About DNS part our customers actually know about it and expect to just connect.

  5. I have a few ways around it though and am currently working to test it out

Overall, I will say this though. This chat would have been seamless if we were on let’s say Slack. (About the content moderation, we (netlify) could make it search engine accessible)
plus the thousands of people who are going to hear my cry for help.

Also I have come to understand the business part of moderating it via how much someone pays you guys. But if there was something more active which didn’t require much of your involvement like the Slack experience I was talking about.

More users will probably have a better experience and if the situation arises pay for premium access based on the amount of value you guys bring. Albeit realistic about the other likelihoods.

Whichever way, what are your views on this and if something is in the works. If not let’s start this fire!

@henry212 This is all well and good, but you’re still not providing the information others will need to help you troubleshoot your issue.

It is not unusual for each site you create to have different DNS servers. Netlify has a bunch of DNS servers. You get whichever is next up in the rotation each time you create a site. This does NOT mean that you should go back to a previously-created site and change the DNS entries! That’s why I recommended you verify your DNS address entries in the NameCheap dashboard against the ones assigned by Netlify in the dashboard for each of your sites.

If your customer expect just to connect, then all that needs to happen is to set up the DNS correctly so they don’t have to deal with DNS at all. Except in rare situations (such as transferring control of a website from your control to the control of your client), the customer doesn’t need to have anything to do with DNS settings.

For what it’s worth, I’m not with Netlify, I’m just a user. I’m not getting paid anything. Part of the reason I try to contribute to this forum is because of its format. If it was on Slack or Gitter, I wouldn’t bother.

Let us know if you want help troubleshooting this or if you just want to wait until Netlify offers Slack support for free accounts.

2 Likes

Hi @henry212 :wave:t2:

I’ll preface this with the disclaimer that I too am not an official Netlify employee. Greg and I are both Community Pilots on this forum; generally akin to a moderator and/or knowledgable figure

I’d like to reiterate that Perry’s response in the other slack-related thread you replied to is still quite on par. Gitter has some searchability, Slack has very very little, and neither provide a public, centralized repository of data for anybody to search through quite like a Discourse instance. This is the Netlify Community. It’s not segmented into multiple platforms, it’s not spread across different user groups or email lists, it’s just this system right here. Simple and central :slight_smile:

To your point of hang-time…

There are few things we need to keep in mind. First and foremost is that Netlify provides a lot of stuff for free. Sure, a good deal of that is automated on their end and their scale allows for it, but it doesn’t change the R&D cost of making their product(s) or the operation cost of their business. For an individual developer, even building production-tier client sites, the Free tier is so freakin’ good it’s not even funny.

One cost that simply can’t be automated is support. Netlify’s team of support engineers is both brilliant and expensive :slight_smile: You’re free to read back through the thousands of support posts on this forum and tens of thousands of replies full of deeply contextual information to prove that point, but Netlify Support Engineers spending tons of time here in The Community just isn’t good company operations. Don’t get me wrong, they do spend a lot of time here and do fabulous work supporting people, but there’s a reason that the “Email Technical Support” feature isn’t available until you get to at least the first paid tier. Support is expensive. Engineering time is expensive. If you’re a Business+ customer, you can get the sort of immediate support you’re looking for, but (and, rightly so) it costs money.

The Community is a great place. There are a number of really fantastic Community Pilots like Greg and myself who have helped countless people and have dug really deep into folks’ issues to help them move forward and figure out problems… but at the end of the day, the Netlify docs are really good, most of Netlify’s own code is open source if you’re willing to read through it, and this Community has a ton of information in its backlog you can search through. I personally look out for questions that strike me as “that may not actually be documented” and love to dive in on those sorts of things, but I have a life too :slight_smile: Let’s just keep realistic expectations of a free service and a community that does have official support but is also strongly powered by community volunteers.

That all said, I recognize that DNS is tricky and not super intuitive. Echoing Greg, if you’d like continued help on your troubles here, always feel free to post back. I don’t see a public / community Netlify Slack coming any time soon, but the Community Pilots and Support Engineers will always be happy to help folks out here… it can just take a bit of time :slight_smile:


Jon

1 Like

I agree with you @jonsully and acknowledge all that has been given to me for free. It’s 100% the best value I have actually experienced.

Your It’s not segmented into multiple platforms, it’s not spread across different user groups or email lists, it’s just this system right here. Simple and central :slight_smile:
can also be achieved with other platforms hence that’s not something I would actually want 100% agree with you on that.

I believe if the movement of a simple needle would bring a great change then it’s a great idea to implement. It has nothing to do with whether or not everything else is provided to me for free.

I am actually not advocating for netlify engineers to be the help we need every time. I am promoting the fact that, if I send a message into Slack like service, for instance, it will echo around a rather 1000+ set of people and 10 of them can help me or anyone else.

I will also receive the someone’s request echos and be able to help someone if what I saw in my email was something I have solved before.

Discourse as I have experienced makes the message echos only known to people who asked for it and those who have seen the request when they visited the community platform hence the reason why only two of you guys are the one answering my questions(do you get my perspective now)

Hence in my perspective is not asking (netlify to help me) but that if a small needle as the platform could help spread my message a bit more widely.

I understand that it will not be coming anytime soon, that wasn’t my objective. I want to know why the needle hasn’t been moved, why it can’t move then finally if I can help to move it.

Everything from your perspective you have talked for, I 100% understand & do not expect all you’ve said. If anything I am advocating the need for your help is spread more widely.

I think instead of you guys pushing for a consensus of an optimal solution, you are rather giving me reasons why the current situation is the best for people like me running on the Free tier and why we shouldn’t move.

I ask that the requirements (https://www.netlify.com/blog/2019/02/15/the-road-to-community-part-two-distill/ ) add a all other people who are not netlify guys helping others(shared workload to everyone in the community).

I also acknowledge how likely my request would not go that far, if anything help me send this to the right person.

Overall, I say let’s not continue this & most of my requests I have been solved and is left with 1 which I am closing in on.

hey @henry212 and others in this thread! This is a great discussion and I’m glad it is happening (and that you are getting the support you need to fix your original issue). I feel like both Greg and Jon bring up the main points that feel important to raise - but i’m here to provide an official opinion (as the person who owns this forum)

The main reason we don’t use a service like slack is searchability - as someone already raised. Ideally, of course, Netlify’s suite of products is so good that errors or problems don;t actually occur. Considering that we serve a LOT of traffic and have a LOT of accounts/devs/etc (we just celebrated 1 million developers deploying on our platform as you may have heard) we actually don’t get that many support requests (in relative terms).

For a ton of people Netlify “just works” and that’s what is great about it. Now, that doesn’t always happen (even though we do work really hard on making it the best it can be). Things are never gonna be perfectly error free, so the second best scenario next to there “not being problems” is that solutions are easy to find and self serve.

That’s part of why we invest(ed) heavily in an amazing docs team + site. But also why we created over 100 Support Guides, found here, #Netlify-support:support-guides that are written and vetted by Support Engineers. We check these regularly for freshness.

While there are a lot of people who come here and ask questions, there are also a vast majority of people who have the following flow:

  1. problem
  2. google search
  3. find answer in community
  4. go fix problem! baiii

and so we never actually see those people surface (except in page views for this forum, which are very high, many, many times over the amount of posts we receive).

That possibility - of self serving information without needing to actually post - is the second best outcome (from our POV) next to there not being a problem in the first place. And the ability to maximize that experience for our customers simply isn’t given with a real-time-chat such as slack, or gitter, or spectrum or similar. We know this because we’ve tried something similar in early days of Netlify, and it just doesn’t work.

Creating a searchable and indexable knowledge repository (not that the search for this forum couldn’t be much better, i agree that it could) is the way we can a.) surface information quickly and tangibly to solution-seekers and b.) minimize the drain on the support team of answering the same questions repeatedly which is expensive and burnout-inducing. There are only 7 support engineers for ALL of Netlify worldwide (including all of our enterprise customers) and we do our best to respond to all questions, even if it sometimes takes a few days. Which is where our fantastic volunteers like Greg or Jon and others come in who help.

I’m always super interested in hearing ways we can make information on how to fix problems as quickly as possible, so if you have ways / thoughts / ideas on how to improve these forums - what can we do to make things better? But a real-time support chat that is officially supported by netlify in form of a slack is unlikely to happen anytime soon, it is simply too resource intensive to staff.

I hope this answers some of your questions and please - i do authentically want to hear feedback on how these forums work for you all, we can make changes as we need - Community is co-created by everyone, including you!

3 Likes

Just to make sure this didn’t get lost in the thoughtful conversation, I wanted to see where you ended up with your technical needs and provide some additional context.

To start with, you need not use our DNS at all. If it’s problematic to migrate, don’t! You can use external DNS hosts that support all the features you want, as long as you configure the netlify records as described in this post: https://www.netlify.com/blog/2020/03/26/how-to-set-up-netlify-dns-custom-domains-cname-a-records/ . That is honestly my usual advice for people who aren’t DNS experts. It’s easier, and you skip some of the propagation you’d otherwise have to wait on if you transfer nameservers AND webhosting to us.

But, as @gregraven pointed out, DNS is not intended to be set by “your customers” - but instead by you. The way our DNS works, which you’ve potentially figured out now by experimentation, is as follows:

  1. you create a DNS Zone here for a domain.
  2. any hostnames within the domain, which you apply to a Netlify site after creating the zone, will have NETLIFY type DNS records created for you. If you created them in the opposite order (configured names on sites BEFORE creating the DNS Zone), removing and re-adding the name(s) to a site will create the appropriate records.
  3. you configure any other DNS records within the zone to match your needs. These should be a superset of your existing production records including all things like MX (but not the Netlify records since we got them in the prior bullet)
  4. Finally, you update your registrar to point to us, taking care with TTL’s since there will be some delay between your change, and all of the internet seeing it. Somewhere between an hour and a day is usual here, so it’s good to pause at this step before making OTHER changes like migrating your site, since propagation is a prerequisite for us provisioning SSL certificates (and, serving your site reliably!)

We do use different nameserver lists for every domain, including one that you delete and re-add. This is to prevent attacks like these: https://thehackerblog.com/the-orphaned-internet-taking-over-120k-domains-via-a-dns-vulnerability-in-aws-google-cloud-rackspace-and-digital-ocean/ . It’s a pretty standard feature to protect you and your traffic, though I understand it was confusing to experience without that context, but hopefully this makes sense now! TL;DR these are created and set once with zone creation. Removing and recreating the zone will create a new set of values, by design.

Good instinct too on creating the DNS Zone BEFORE migrating to Netlify!

I still don’t understand what relationship your customers are, or what you are trying to manipulate via API exactly to what purpose, so feel free to follow up in your other thread since this seems to be a good conversation on a different topic, just wanted to provide the breadcrumbs for others who ended up here, so they follow the tech conversation over to that other post.

Next steps: based on the above and your experiments, are you in a stable place for your needs? That’s my #1 goal - ensuring your understanding of, and success with, our platform.

Let me know what you think, and we’ll continue to help you as we can. But as has been pointed out, that help will not be, and is not trying to be, instant. In our help desk, and in our community, our free customers are a priority, but they are not the highest priority, so it can be days between responses, and that is normal and what we are aiming for as a business. Paying customers will continue to get answers faster, but as long as I work here (4 years and counting so far!) we’ll always be providing free help to our free customers.

@henry212 Henry, I think you’ve got their good attention :upside_down_face:, as well as very helpful contributors, and will hope your problem gets worked out soon.

I just wanted to mention that indeed the Fauna support is very strongly moving away from Slack, and onto a normal forum run on Discourse (don’t mix up with Discord…). It’s here: https://forums.fauna.com/

Indeed there are big problems with using Slack, and I’ve been part of several communities which have been quite happy to move away. For Fauna, I think part of the reasoning is also to split kind of internal and contributors development conversation from community support.

And then also, some really capable persons come over to the forum, thus do both.

The key to that support is that you can find someone who understands well enough to answer. And as you are aware I’m sure, problems can get very complex, so you have to use your patience and wits as we all do. Netlify can help by improving the attentiveness of escalation. And we can help, by sharing knowledge when it exists, and by understanding where problems extend beyond what Netlify can be responsible to solve them – as many cloud/web situations definitely can.

Again, best fortune on the avenues it takes to come to your solution. The things we work with are not always simple…

Clive